The Hurdle Rate

The bar every investment must clear. Weekly.

Latest: The User Experience| Ep. 56

Matt Cole, Ben Werkman, Jeff Walton, and Tim Kotzman dive into Bitcoin, energy, treasury management, markets, macro, AI, and more. Bitcoin is the hurdle rate for capital deployment — and there is substantial depth to that statement that we endeavor to explore.

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Latest: The User Experience| Ep. 56

All Episodes (57)

56.The User Experience| Ep. 56

The crew is back this week discussing Strategy’s passing of BlackRock in Bitcoin Holdings and what it could signal for broader markets. They then dive into whether the tokenized ecosystem is actually providing value, before exploring how AI tools are reshaping portfolio construction. Finally, they w

Apr 21, 2026

Apr 21, 2026 ~60 min →

55.A Structural Shift| Ep. 55

The crew is back this week discussing Digital Credit’s big month and what it signals for markets. They then explore capital flows, before rethinking credit in today’s environment and wrapping with a discussion on the end of the 60/40 portfolio. Here's the latest with Tim Kotzman, Matt Cole, Jeff Wal

Apr 14, 2026

Apr 14, 2026 51:01 →

54.The Management of The Treasury| Ep. 54

The crew is back this week discussing the growing risks around the US debt crisis and what it could mean for markets. They then explore how AI is rapidly disrupting the startup economy, before diving into debasement and how to think about portfolio construction in this environment. Finally, they deb

Apr 7, 2026

Apr 7, 2026 ~60 min →

53.Bitcoin, AI and The New QE

Apr 4, 2026

Apr 4, 2026 ~60 min →

53.Bitcoin, AI and The New QE| Ep. 53

Mar 31, 2026

Mar 31, 2026 ~60 min →

52.An Increasingly Digital World

In Episode 52 of The Hurdle Rate (week of March 23, 2026), Tim Cottman joins Jeff Walton, Ben Workman, and Matt Cole to discuss Strategy’s new at-the-market programs: $21B for STRC, $21B for MSTR, and a reduction of STRK’s ATM from $21B to $2.1B, signaling “Stretch” as the marquee product alongside

Mar 25, 2026

Mar 25, 2026 ~60 min →

51.A Digital Credit Treasury | The Hurdle Rate Podcast Ep.51

Strategy just bought more than 22,000 Bitcoin, but the bigger story may be what comes next. In this episode of The Hurdle Rate, the team breaks down digital credit, Bitcoin-backed treasury strategy, yield, liquidity, and why products like Stretch and Saya could reshape corporate finance. If you want

Mar 17, 2026

Mar 17, 2026 1:00:34 →

50.Some Pretty Good Money Printing

The crew kicks things off with Strategy's latest moves and what they could mean going forward. They then discuss the milestone of the 20 millionth Bitcoin being mined and what it says about Bitcoin's supply schedule. The back half shifts to a broader conversation about the speed at which AI is advancing.

Mar 10, 2026

Mar 10, 2026 1:00:34 →

49.Digital Credit is for Corporations

The crew is back this week and dives straight into Bitcoin as digital freedom money amid growing global uncertainty, followed by a full Strategy World recap. They examine whether STRC itself represents The Hurdle Rate, then look at how traditional finance showed up at Strategy World and what that signals. The back half of the episode focuses on the liquidity component and wraps with closing thoughts. and

Mar 2, 2026

Mar 2, 2026 1:09:50 →

48.Bullish Digital Credit

The crew is back with a wide-ranging breakdown of the week’s biggest themes. They kick things off with reflections on Bitcoin Investor Week and Matt’s debate with Grant Cardone, then dig into how amplification works in a bear market and what it means for positioning. From there, the conversation shifts to the true risk profile of digital credit instruments, private credit and the compounding effects of GDP and government spending, and closes with a discussion on AI disruption and the realities of a K-shaped economy. Here’s the latest with III Capital, and.

Feb 18, 2026

Feb 18, 2026 54:11 →

47.A Time To Build

The crew is back with a wide-ranging breakdown of the week’s biggest themes. They discuss what’s happening on the ground at Bitcoin Investor Week in NYC, then dive into the ongoing debate around bull versus bear markets and whether the market has finally found a bottom. The episode wraps with a discussion of Strategy’s latest earnings call and what it signals going forward. Here’s the latest with III Capital

Feb 10, 2026

Feb 10, 2026 49:14 →

46.Build The Structure

The crew is back to unpack Kevin Warsh as Fed Chair, Clawdbots & Moltbook, and the pref-only model and digital risk—plus a separate discussion on Bitcoin as a term asset and what a potential supercycle could mean.

Feb 3, 2026

Feb 3, 2026 49:31 →

45.Preferred Equity Demand

The crew is back to discuss preferred equity and potential systemic risk to Bitcoin, the Strive + Semler M&A transaction being the first in Bitcoin treasuries, the IBIT Bitcoin covered call ETF, gold and silver price action, what Japan is saying to the world right now, and Bitcoin in an action-packed 2026. and

Jan 28, 2026

Jan 28, 2026 1:05:10 →

44.Digital Credit Clarity

The crew is back to discuss Strategy's latest, credit spreads tightening, Coinbase pulling out of the clarity act and the Bitcoin treasury podcast industrial complex. and

Jan 20, 2026

Jan 20, 2026 57:23 →

43.The Best Message Is Digital Credit

The crew is back to discuss Strategy's latest Orange Buy, Saylor on What Bitcoin Did, disenchantment with the Fed, caps on credit card interest, the Strive Semler Scientific merger, and more.

Jan 13, 2026

Jan 13, 2026 1:02:48 →

42.Pensions, Private Equity & Digital Credit

The crew is back to discuss Strategy's latest green and orange buys as it gears up for a massive 2026, a look back at 2025 and year zero of digital credit, capital allocation and pension funds, and the outlook for 2026.

Jan 6, 2026

Jan 6, 2026 1:02:24 →

41.Structurally Bullish

The crew is back to reflect on 2025, discuss The Bitcoin Era, amplification and the power of compounding, the year of Bitcoin Treasuries, and much more.

Dec 23, 2025

Dec 23, 2025 59:40 →

40.Set Up For A Supercycle

The crew is back to discuss the latest on Bitcoin, the possibility of a decade long supercycle, the OCC approving additional bank charters, valuations, Strategy staying in the Nasdaq 100, and more.

Dec 16, 2025

Dec 16, 2025 46:30 →

39.The Hurdle Rate Is High

The crew is back to discuss the latest at the Bitcoin MENA conference, the progression of banks and sovereigns entering Bitcoin services and the Bitcoin accumulation race, and Bitcoin as the hurdle rate.

Dec 9, 2025

Dec 9, 2025 41:28 →

38.The Incentives Are Aligned

The crew is back to discuss the latest news with Vanguard allowing Bitcoin ETFs and mutual funds on their platform, Strategy's USD Reserve, and the STRC dividend rate hike.

Dec 2, 2025

Dec 2, 2025 58:20 →

37.Meet Them Where They're At

Bitcoin just bounced from a violent drop to $80K as fear surged across markets — but according to the Hurdle Rate team, the real catalyst wasn’t panic selling. It was structural: MSCI reconsidering Bitcoin-heavy balance sheets, mispriced liquidation fears, leverage washouts, and sentiment misreads.

Nov 25, 2025

Nov 25, 2025 53:20 →

36.Inside the Digital Credit Revolution

The crew is back covering Bitcoin Amsterdam, the Cantor Crypto & AI/Energy Infrastructure Conference in Miami, volatility in the prefs, underwriting Bitcoin, and more.

Nov 18, 2025

Nov 18, 2025 54:40 →

35.Amplified Bitcoin and Digital Credit

Bitcoin treasury companies are entering the digital credit era — using perpetual preferred equity to turn volatile Bitcoin into stable, high-yield, Bitcoin-powered credit. In this episode of The Hurdle Rate, the team breaks down the new Saya IPO, rock (return of capital) dividends, and equity-only amplification.

Nov 10, 2025

Nov 10, 2025 1:20:08 →

34.The Preferred Strategy is Digital Credit

Bitcoin treasury companies are quietly building an entirely new digital credit market on top of the strongest asset on earth: Bitcoin. In this episode of The Hurdle Rate, Matt Cole, Ben Werkman and Jeff Walton break down Strategy’s Q3 earnings, the launch of STREAM in Europe, tax-deferred return-of-

Nov 4, 2025

Nov 4, 2025 51:48 →

33.Credit Ratings for Digital Capital

The crew is back covering Strategy's credit rating, how this could impact the insurance industry, interest coverage ration and industry credit ratings, what it will take for Bitcoin Treasury Company credit ratings to go higher, Mike Alfred, big volumes, and more.

Oct 28, 2025

Oct 28, 2025 54:21 →

32.Strategic Risk Taking

The crew is back covering Tim's latest Bitcoin Treasuries Digital Conference, sentiment versus conviction with Bitcoin Treasury Companies, strategic risk taking, and more.

Oct 22, 2025

Oct 22, 2025 52:55 →

31.The Digital Credit Landscape

A record liquidation ripped through “crypto,” but Bitcoin held the bid. We break down the stablecoin-driven exploit, cascading leverage, and why capital fled to Bitcoin—the most liquid, institutionally viable asset in digital markets. Expect higher volatility, tighter spreads later… and stronger con

Oct 14, 2025

Oct 14, 2025 1:01:18 →

30.Focus on the Future

Ben joins Strive as CIO, tribalism and doubt in the Bitcoin community, the fastest-growing ETF of all time, and how the corporate alternative minimum tax affects Bitcoin treasuries.

Oct 7, 2025

Oct 7, 2025 47:56 →

29.Bitcoin Supercycle

Tim goes all-in on Bitcoin, the case for a Bitcoin supercycle, BTC versus other store-of-value assets, the UK digital ID rollout, and Strategy's first dividend day.

Sep 30, 2025

Sep 30, 2025 52:54 →

28.The M&A Era Has Begun

Joe Burnett joins to discuss Strive's acquisition of Semler Scientific, the power of meeting Bitcoiners in person, behind-the-scenes from the NYC Unconference, and operating with a long-term view.

Sep 23, 2025

Sep 23, 2025 50:33 →

27.The Starting Line

Strive announces its Board of Directors, the anticipated Fed rate cut, the upcoming Bitcoin Treasuries Unconference in New York, and options trading on preferred securities.

Sep 16, 2025

Sep 16, 2025 53:03 →

26.Zoom Out - We're Early

Pierre Rochard joins to discuss Strategy's S&P 500 exclusion, how Michael Saylor reframes the world of risk, and the evolving landscape of Strategy's ATM programs.

Sep 9, 2025

Sep 9, 2025 43:02 →

25.Will Travel for Bitcoin

Bitcoin Asia just drew 20,000 people — but adoption in Asia still lags the U.S. by years. Treasury companies like Strategy are proving that perpetual Bitcoin accumulation is the only real hedge against inflation, fiat debasement, and Fed “independence” theater. From STRC yield mechanics to corporate

Sep 3, 2025

Sep 3, 2025 44:07 →

24.Fed Signals and Equity Stakes

Guest host Avik Roy joins for Strive's major announcement, the Fed's Jackson Hole symposium signals, Intel's relationship with the US government, and a Bitcoin Treasuries Unconference update.

Aug 26, 2025

Aug 26, 2025 59:29 →

23.Noise in the Market

Bitcoin treasury companies trading below 1x mNAV, the gold revaluation thesis, executive compensation structures in BTC treasuries, and preferred liquidation preference mechanics.

Aug 19, 2025

Aug 19, 2025 56:56 →

22.Commodity, Security, Token

Bo Hines moves to the private sector, the viability of ETH treasury companies at scale, Tim's NYC Unconference recap, and Strategy's five-year Bitcoin anniversary.

Aug 13, 2025

Aug 13, 2025 52:04 → 21

21.The Intelligent Leverage Trade: Winter Isn't Coming Back

Recapping Strategy's earnings call, the ATM adjustment, Bitcoin per share metrics, why leverage ratios matter most, and whether Bitcoin treasury companies could trigger the next bear market.

Aug 5, 2025

Aug 5, 2025 58:54 → 20

20.Convert to IPO

Strategy's STRC IPO, convertible notes and earnings expectations, the absence of ATM usage, a US-EU trade deal, and mNAV as a store-of-value indicator.

Jul 29, 2025

Jul 29, 2025 52:58 → 19

19.A Huge Wave of Capital isn't a STRC

Breaking down Strategy's new STRC preferred product, real estate versus perpetual preferred securities, whether a crypto winter could return, and Ben's path to joining Strive.

Jul 23, 2025

Jul 23, 2025 54:38 → 18

18.Transparency is Not Priced In

Strategy's latest Bitcoin buy, why altcoin treasury strategies fall short, AI's impact on Bitcoin treasury companies, the mispricing of risk, and new tariffs making no dent.

Jul 14, 2025

Jul 14, 2025 48:21 → 17

17.Strategy hits their STRD

Jeff's big announcement, what STRD's ATM facility means for investors, how large a company should be before issuing preferred products, and Elon Musk declaring fiat hopeless.

Jul 8, 2025

Jul 8, 2025 39:54 → 16

16.Dividend Drip

Strategy enters the Russell Top 200 Value Index, stock markets hit all-time highs, Metaplanet climbs to #5 on the Bitcoin Treasury leaderboard, and whether this run scares off investors.

Jul 1, 2025

Jul 1, 2025 52:06 → 15

15.Billions in Bitcoin Treasuries

The crew covers the latest including BTC Prague, new announcements in the Bitcoin Treasuries space, the digital transformation of investor relations, and Matt Cole joining True North.

Jun 24, 2025

Jun 24, 2025 55:20 → 14

14.The World's Evolving

The crew covers the latest including alt coins announcing Bitcoin Treasury strategies, Chanos, the US dollar, Saylor's latest buy, and more.

Jun 17, 2025

Jun 17, 2025 51:23 → 13

13.Building for Decades

The crew weighs in on American politics, describes Bitcoin Treasury Companies as tax-advantaged perpetual Bitcoin dividend drips, and walks through a 20-30% debt to equity ratio.

Jun 10, 2025

Jun 10, 2025 56:29 → 12

12.Upgrade with Junk Grade

Real-time analysis of Strategy's STRD announcement, the Bitcoin cycle peak question, James Wynn's leveraged trade, and what the Bitcoin interest rate should be.

Jun 3, 2025

Jun 3, 2025 48:17 → 11

11.People Are Dancing

The crew reports in from Las Vegas with a recap from the Bitcoin 2025 conference. They cover the power of communication, getting your hands dirty with alpha and beta, reigniting creativity, and more.

May 30, 2025

May 30, 2025 42:29 → 10

10.Have Bitcoin - Get Money

Strategy's latest major Bitcoin acquisition, Semler Scientific's board shakeup, Jamie Dimon's Bitcoin critique, the US debt downgrade, and the class action lawsuit against Strategy.

May 20, 2025

May 20, 2025 58:24 → 9

9.A Movement Has Started

Why retail investors may understand the Strategy playbook better than institutions, the case for boldness in Bitcoin treasury strategy, and the themes that will define the next phase.

May 13, 2025

May 13, 2025 51:12 → 8

8.Strategy World Recap - A Revolution Ignited

Live recap from Strategy World and the Bitcoin for Corporations Conference in Orlando — Strive's announcement, Saylor's AI-driven fixed income approach, and key takeaways from the crew.

May 8, 2025

May 8, 2025 34:36 → 7

7.Fully Torqued Bitcoin

Deep dive on Strategy's earnings call, the 42/42 capital plan, permanent leverage without refinancing risk, and using BTC risk for credit analysis across the capital structure.

May 3, 2025

May 3, 2025 49:39 → 6

6.Win or Win More

Strategy earnings breakdown, 21 Capital's announcement, the GameStop Bitcoin treasury delay, and whether Ray Dalio is too late to the party.

Apr 29, 2025

Apr 29, 2025 58:17 → 5

5.DXY vs. Store of Value Assets

We're back covering the DXY, Gold versus Bitcoin, interest rates, stagflation, Strategy, Metaplanet and Bitcoin dominance. Broadcasting from California, the PNW, Michigan and New York City: This is The Hurdle Rate for the week of April 21, 2025.

Apr 23, 2025

Apr 23, 2025 53:26 → 4

4.Bitcoin Portfolio Theory

Monte Carlo simulations for Bitcoin portfolios, Strategy's mNAV analysis, Strive's engagement with Intuit, and the latest macro and tariff developments.

Apr 16, 2025

Apr 16, 2025 1:08:15 → 3

3.Negotiating with Penguins

This week we discuss deficit based tariffs, the US workforce, Universal Basic Income, volatility in the market, penguins, AI, and more.

Apr 9, 2025

Apr 9, 2025 55:57 → 2

2.Trump Tariff Armageddon

This week and cover GameStop, Metaplanet, Liberation Day and more!

Apr 2, 2025

Apr 2, 2025 1:05:59 → 1

1.Welcome to the Hurdle Rate Podcast

Dive into Bitcoin, energy, treasury management, markets, macro, AI and more. Bitcoin is the hurdle rate for capital deployment, but there is substantial depth to that statement that we endeavor to explore.

Mar 26, 2025

Mar 26, 2025 1:41:38 →

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